This Side of the Pulpit » Theology » Luther, Lutheranism, Lutherans and So On
Luther, Lutheranism, Lutherans and So On
I’ve got a lot of semi-connected thoughts about denomination (doctrinal) loyalty and commitment and can’t quite string them together yet…or not without getting a little too specific for a publicly read blog.
Since this is a blog and just a step above Jack Chick tracts, I can post about not having anything to post. I guess it’s a good thing you have low standards, or you wouldn’t be reading here anyway, I suppose.
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Filed under: Theology · Tags: blogging about blogging, Lutheranism
7 Responses to "Luther, Lutheranism, Lutherans and So On"
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This might interest you then.
In an intra-Orthodox article rebutting a pro-ecumenical podcast, Patrick Barnes quoted Arch. Justin Popovich cutting to the quick regarding denominations and the nature of the Church:
“…the Orthodox Church, as the Body Christ, is the source and the foundation of the Sacraments and not the other way around.” (Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ; quoted in “Heresy vs. Truth: A Response to Dr. Peter Bouteneff” by Patrick Barnes, pp. 15-16).
The late Fr. Justin goes into greater detail in the article and magnified this point with: “the single most unique Mystery is the Church itself, the Body of the God-man Christ, so that she is the only source and the content of all divine Sacraments. Outside of this theanthropic and inclusive Mystery of the Church, the Pan-Mystery itself, there are no and cannot be any “mysteries”; therefore, there can be no inter-communion of Mysteries. Consequently we can only speak about Mysteries within the Context of this unique Pan-Mystery which is the Church.” (p. 15)
If it is the other way around, or if faith and proper confession build the external form of the Church, well, then, it makes sense that there is no denominational allegiance.
Of course, I don’t know what your unsaid thoughts are and these quotes are obviously not Lutheran, so… BTW, the article is very ‘inside baseball’ regarding intra-Orthodox debates.
Rachel–the first few paragraphs seemed interesting, but then I lost interest and didn’t read the whole thing. Ha ha. But to be honest, I did skim it a lot more than I used to read things like that. And I find myself not actually thinking about it right now.
If I did think about it, I would probably turn the darn thing off right now and go agrarian–just plain drop out and wait for the rest of the world to be swept away in some William Gibson nightmare. Or maybe that’s already happened.
Christopher–funny how if you actually believe in the Truth, it sorts things out for you, doesn’t it? I think the Lutheran version of this would go along the lines, not of the Church as the “Body of the God-Man Christ” but as to the veracity of our Confessions. Yes, I know I’ve already missed the point that Fr. Justin makes, but I’m Lutheran, so that just has to be here.
What I mean is, if we as Lutherans actually believed what we say we believe, then “compete-ing” confessions would be a no-thing for us, and we wouldn’t have to fight off that temptation of becoming like them or at least justifying our confession to other denominations.
Is it that we feel the need to defend the Confessions in some abstract, or is it we feel spurned by people have left? I haven’t seen any rampant Lutheran vs. Methodist debates lately — of course, I haven’t heard of any prominent defections.
Denominations are a tragedy. But, it’s not our fault that other people are foolish and despise the Word. . . it’s only our fault that we are both foolish and stupid and end up despising the Word, Lord have mercy!
No, Eric, the point is there aren’t debates among most laity and many clergy. It’s not defending the Confessions so much as being defensive of them, or dismissing them in all but name.
I guess the inter-confessional difficulty is that the Lutheran Confessions and the beliefs the espouse are not wholly dissimilar from other Protestant Confessions of faith. Sure, there are significant differences, but many of the premises are the same going in, even if different positions result on the back end.
This similarity is easy to see from the outside. The best example is how LCMS, WELS, ELS and CLC all look the same to the ELCA and to most Christians and non-Christians (perhaps even to a lot of their own members…). There are significant (perhaps) theological and practical differences that can justify separation on principle, but those difference pale when compared to anything on the outside.
That is, traditional Protestants spend a lot of time understanding and defending their differences from each other because otherwise they would be united. The devil’s in the details. The smaller, more ‘intransigent’ groups are defensive because they are the ‘veto’ to unity and are in the minority. A prime example are the Orthodox in the West: you don’t get asked ‘why are you Orthodox?’ on Athos? A simple layman will be asked this in Wisconsin – and needs to have an answer relative to the more dominant confessions. Lutherans face the same problem in the South and in traditional Roman Catholic bastions, but not in MN. High profile defections or other religious/spiritual ‘movements’ will determine whether a response will be developed, i.e., how much of a defense against Buddhism was there in Walther’s day?